They are better if you own a house. Otherwise charging becomes a much larger issue. The cost of fast charging at a public charger isn’t any cheaper than filling a gas tank and takes a lot longer with fewer options.
I’m also worried about battery lifespan. My gamily has had 2 hybrids, and both became standard ICE cars because the batteries failed and cost more than the cars are worth to replace. I drive about 35,000 miles a year, and need something that will last. I bought a used 2005 F150 that now has almost 600,000 miles on it with the original engine, and if it does have a failire, I can buy a new engine for about $3500, whereas an EV battery costs 15-20 grand.
Doing some rough math, with current gas prices (~$5.90 in CA), 35k miles per year, assuming only highway miles at ~18mpg, and including the cost of regular maintenance (excluding tires which EVs need too); on the low-end, assuming you’re driving the 4.2L, you’re spending ~$11,000 (±$2,000) every year.
An EV, by comparison, assuming an off-peak rate of $0.25/kWh (I pay ~$0.11, but after all the BS line items, it’s closer to a 22 cents), and a 4 mile/kWh efficiency; you’d be paying ~$2,150 total per year.
You could theoretically save ~$8,000 (± $2,000) per year driving an electric. Sure, the cost of an engine is ~$3.5k, but that’s in addition to the $11,000 you’re already paying every year. Compared to an EV, in just 3 years you’d save enough money to cover the price of a $20k battery (if we assume worst-case pricing), which are generally expected to last 15-20 years. Even if we cut that in half, you’re still saving more with an EV in the long-run.
GRANTED there are other issues/concerns with driving an EV, like charge rate, planning trips (infra. still needs to catch up), people who don’t have a place to charge at home, etc.
Believe it or not, not everybody lives in California. I live in Texas and bought gas here yesterday. Using that price at 35k you’re looking at like 6500 a year.
And maintenance on an ICE is super cheap if you just change the fucking oil. There’s a reason I have 565,000 miles on a single engine that still runs great. I spend about $200 a year on oil change supplies (changing oil is supe4 easy and you should neve4 pay someone to do it), and maybe another 50-100 for things like air filters. I buy used tires (shop I use buys tires from other tires shops when someone upgrades tires on new vehicles) every 2 years or so for about $200 for a full set. Other incidental maintenance like spark plugs, brake pads and AC compressors come along, but I’m still averaging around $500/year on maintenance because maintenance is cheap and easy to do yourself.
So all in I’m around 6k a year in running costs.
Oh - and I’m not spending another 7 or 8 grand a year on a car note on a car I can’t service myself.
If you adjust the $11k based on the cost of living index, my estimate falls in line with your 6,500/year for Texas. The index in California is 149.9 vs Texas at 92.1, which is ~61.44% less:
($11,000 original estimate) * (0.6144 % difference) = $6,700 per year in gas.
If we adjust the price of electricity using the cost of living index it also drops down to ~$1,320/year to drive an EV. Even adjusting for Texas you’re still down ~$4,700 year over year. In 5 years of driving a comparable EV, you’d have saved over 20k.
And maintenance on an ICE is super cheap if you just change the fucking oil.
100% agree. Its cheap, but not free, unless your time has no value.
Our hybrids both having battery failures is personal experience, not Republican talking points.
But the great thing about hybrids is that they still work if the battery fails. And I can put enough fuel to drive 300 miles in at a gas station for the same price as paying for a level 3 charger that’ll take 10 times as long.
I would love to have an electric, but it doesn’t make sense for me or many others who rent when a hybrid is cheaper to buy, just as cheap to drive when you don’thave a hime charger, and doesn’t depend on a $15,000 part that can’t be serviced by the owner.
That’s absolutely not true. The starter battery is lead-acid, but those don’t move the car.
A standard group 27 lead acid used just to start a car’s engine weighs like 70 pounds. One big enough to actually drive it any distance would weigh literal tons.
It is a valid point. I have a coworker whose wife has a Tesla. They recently moved but had been searching for a place for about 6 months. Luckily, their previous place allowed them to sign a month-to-month lease while they searched.
They found a nice rental home with a garage that was wired for 240v (yes we’re in the US) and signed the lease. Only for them to find out the 240v outlet wouldn’t work because someone had stole the wiring. Landlord won’t fix it, so they have to use the slow Level 1 charger. She now cannot use the vehicle for work related trips without using a public charging station because of the distance.
They are better if you own a house. Otherwise charging becomes a much larger issue. The cost of fast charging at a public charger isn’t any cheaper than filling a gas tank and takes a lot longer with fewer options.
I’m also worried about battery lifespan. My gamily has had 2 hybrids, and both became standard ICE cars because the batteries failed and cost more than the cars are worth to replace. I drive about 35,000 miles a year, and need something that will last. I bought a used 2005 F150 that now has almost 600,000 miles on it with the original engine, and if it does have a failire, I can buy a new engine for about $3500, whereas an EV battery costs 15-20 grand.
Doing some rough math, with current gas prices (~$5.90 in CA), 35k miles per year, assuming only highway miles at ~18mpg, and including the cost of regular maintenance (excluding tires which EVs need too); on the low-end, assuming you’re driving the 4.2L, you’re spending ~$11,000 (±$2,000) every year.
An EV, by comparison, assuming an off-peak rate of $0.25/kWh (I pay ~$0.11, but after all the BS line items, it’s closer to a 22 cents), and a 4 mile/kWh efficiency; you’d be paying ~$2,150 total per year.
You could theoretically save ~$8,000 (± $2,000) per year driving an electric. Sure, the cost of an engine is ~$3.5k, but that’s in addition to the $11,000 you’re already paying every year. Compared to an EV, in just 3 years you’d save enough money to cover the price of a $20k battery (if we assume worst-case pricing), which are generally expected to last 15-20 years. Even if we cut that in half, you’re still saving more with an EV in the long-run.
GRANTED there are other issues/concerns with driving an EV, like charge rate, planning trips (infra. still needs to catch up), people who don’t have a place to charge at home, etc.
11 grand a year is crazy numbers.
Believe it or not, not everybody lives in California. I live in Texas and bought gas here yesterday. Using that price at 35k you’re looking at like 6500 a year.
And maintenance on an ICE is super cheap if you just change the fucking oil. There’s a reason I have 565,000 miles on a single engine that still runs great. I spend about $200 a year on oil change supplies (changing oil is supe4 easy and you should neve4 pay someone to do it), and maybe another 50-100 for things like air filters. I buy used tires (shop I use buys tires from other tires shops when someone upgrades tires on new vehicles) every 2 years or so for about $200 for a full set. Other incidental maintenance like spark plugs, brake pads and AC compressors come along, but I’m still averaging around $500/year on maintenance because maintenance is cheap and easy to do yourself.
So all in I’m around 6k a year in running costs.
Oh - and I’m not spending another 7 or 8 grand a year on a car note on a car I can’t service myself.
And apparently crazy accurate!
If you adjust the $11k based on the cost of living index, my estimate falls in line with your 6,500/year for Texas. The index in California is 149.9 vs Texas at 92.1, which is ~61.44% less:
(
$11,000original estimate) * (0.6144% difference) =$6,700per year in gas.If we adjust the price of electricity using the cost of living index it also drops down to ~$1,320/year to drive an EV. Even adjusting for Texas you’re still down ~$4,700 year over year. In 5 years of driving a comparable EV, you’d have saved over 20k.
100% agree. Its cheap, but not free, unless your time has no value.
Battery lifespan is great, don’t buy into Republican talking points.
Our hybrids both having battery failures is personal experience, not Republican talking points.
But the great thing about hybrids is that they still work if the battery fails. And I can put enough fuel to drive 300 miles in at a gas station for the same price as paying for a level 3 charger that’ll take 10 times as long.
I would love to have an electric, but it doesn’t make sense for me or many others who rent when a hybrid is cheaper to buy, just as cheap to drive when you don’thave a hime charger, and doesn’t depend on a $15,000 part that can’t be serviced by the owner.
deleted by creator
That’s absolutely not true. The starter battery is lead-acid, but those don’t move the car.
A standard group 27 lead acid used just to start a car’s engine weighs like 70 pounds. One big enough to actually drive it any distance would weigh literal tons.
It is a valid point. I have a coworker whose wife has a Tesla. They recently moved but had been searching for a place for about 6 months. Luckily, their previous place allowed them to sign a month-to-month lease while they searched.
They found a nice rental home with a garage that was wired for 240v (yes we’re in the US) and signed the lease. Only for them to find out the 240v outlet wouldn’t work because someone had stole the wiring. Landlord won’t fix it, so they have to use the slow Level 1 charger. She now cannot use the vehicle for work related trips without using a public charging station because of the distance.
What does that have to do with battery life?